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s15rocket

Save up for gtx2860r gen 2 or just get a cheapo kinugawa, hypergear or mamba?

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Ultimate goal is for a responsive 250-270rwkw on e85 on a stock engine with poncams.

 

The GTX gen 2 looks amazing but it would cost at least $2500 to get one of these bolted up. Meanwhile you can buy a whole turbo kinugawa kit for like $1000 that will achieve this.

 

Problem is I want something responsive. I don't want a turbo that takes 4000pm to kick in. But I also don't want to pay a lot of money lol.

 

Looking at the dyno graphs of these turbos installed on s13's the top power margin is good but without the vct gear they seem to lag very badly.

 

Anyway. Has anyone running one of these cheapo turbos on the street? What's it like? I wish I could drive one to see if i'd be happy with it.

 

Right now I got JDM s15 T28BB hooked up. But I don't want to tune it then have to pay more later for another tune with another turbo. Coz I know I will get bored with it.

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Kinagawa T518z.... was ok but dog below 4K. literally hated the car but changed to 4.3 diff and e85 made it bearable and only made 230kw (made 245kw on dyno buyt spiked so hard no good besides 4 gear pulls)

 

Have a gen 1 GTX2860R ( seems like I bought the last one in aus). But you buy a super core for 1300 then get a blown disco or 2871 for 50-100 then its 30 min of work to swap rear housing to save a bunch

Nearly at point of getting tuned.. hoping for a disco like response ( mid 3K ) with 240ish with 740s on e85 which wil hopefully be a mad street turbo

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but if want the cheap turbo will sell the kinagawa for $500 with a dump and braided lines

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Ive had the kinugawa and like locky said was a dog before 4000rpm

But made the power 230kw on pump 98 and 250kw on e85 and ran 12s all day

Hypergear ss2 280rwkw e85 25psi by 3800rpm

Hypergear ss1.5 250rwkw e85 20psi by 3500rpm but boost is capped there too much back pressure upgraded to a larger rear housing but lost power downlow and full boost now was at 4200rpm 25psi extra 16kw 266kw

Depends what you want ss1.5 .64ar was very zippy and always onto boost cruising at 100km but i liked the ss2 .64ar the best not too much lag difference but the extra 30kw you can definately feel

All on a non vct sr20 180sx with poncams

Just make sure your fueling is up to the task and your intake and exhaust is free flowing

Also will need valve springs if running big boost over 20psi

i did them the same time as i upgraded to the ss2 and would reccomend head studs for over 25psi

Hypergear now have the option for bb core so will be even better transient response and feel better down low

Only had the bush bearing option back then and was still ok

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So you want your cake and eat it too

 

Sure why not? Why spend more than you have too?

 

Kinagawa T518z.... was ok but dog below 4K. literally hated the car but changed to 4.3 diff and e85 made it bearable and only made 230kw (made 245kw on dyno buyt spiked so hard no good besides 4 gear pulls)

 

Have a gen 1 GTX2860R ( seems like I bought the last one in aus). But you buy a super core for 1300 then get a blown disco or 2871 for 50-100 then its 30 min of work to swap rear housing to save a bunch

Nearly at point of getting tuned.. hoping for a disco like response ( mid 3K ) with 240ish with 740s on e85 which wil hopefully be a mad street turbo

 

Can you house the super cores in a stock s15 t28BB? I had a genuine greddy t518z on my old s15. That was very responsive. Had 150rwkw by 3500rpm. You dont see many SR doing that. I think kinguwawa t518z isnt machined as well which probably explains its lack of response compared to the real deal. THe real deal is also twice the price. Cost me $2200 from japan for the kit). So you get what you pay for I guess.

 

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=423506

 

 

Ive had the kinugawa and like locky said was a dog before 4000rpm

But made the power 230kw on pump 98 and 250kw on e85 and ran 12s all day

Hypergear ss2 280rwkw e85 25psi by 3800rpm

Hypergear ss1.5 250rwkw e85 20psi by 3500rpm but boost is capped there too much back pressure upgraded to a larger rear housing but lost power downlow and full boost now was at 4200rpm 25psi extra 16kw 266kw

Depends what you want ss1.5 .64ar was very zippy and always onto boost cruising at 100km but i liked the ss2 .64ar the best not too much lag difference but the extra 30kw you can definately feel

All on a non vct sr20 180sx with poncams

Just make sure your fueling is up to the task and your intake and exhaust is free flowing

Also will need valve springs if running big boost over 20psi

i did them the same time as i upgraded to the ss2 and would reccomend head studs for over 25psi

Hypergear now have the option for bb core so will be even better transient response and feel better down low

Only had the bush bearing option back then and was still ok

 

I think I can definitely cross out the kinguawa for now. Seems like a great track turbo though. But on streets response is king. The new hypergear BB option sounds like a strong possibility tho. I've actuallly been looking at the gt2871r (boring i know) but its tried and tested and its a direct bolt on and you dont even need to alter the stock inlet and outlet piping for the turbo. I think you get them new for around $1500.

Edited by s15rocket

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Vct makes a big difference to down low power

So you cant compare a s13/180sx to a s14/15

 

 

 

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dont buy a GT2871.

 

they are a dogshit, old, mismatched turbo and the lag isnt worth it.

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No cant use a stock turbo rear housing, has to be a 2860RS ( disco) or 2871

But can pick up a dead one for 50-100 then super core only 1300ish so stiull a cheap GTX than buying one off the shelf

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Vct makes a big difference to down low power

So you cant compare a s13/180sx to a s14/15

 

Have definitely noticed since selling my s15 and getting a 180sx. Didn't realise just how much VCT effected the low down response. I used to hate the VCT on my s15 especially when it started to rattle. Eventually got it replaced but its worth the $$$$ for the extra response in hindsight now.

 

dont buy a GT2871.

 

they are a dogshit, old, mismatched turbo and the lag isnt worth it.

 

Yeah I think I'll just wait and save up for a GTX turbo. Only thing is I noticed these turbos don't bolt on directly. The inlet and outlets don't have the bolt holes like the gt2871r does. So how does one need to bolt them up? Do you need to modify your intercooler piping and use a silicone joiner?

 

No cant use a stock turbo rear housing, has to be a 2860RS ( disco) or 2871

But can pick up a dead one for 50-100 then super core only 1300ish so stiull a cheap GTX than buying one off the shelf

 

I had a look on gumtree for a dead one. Can't see many around. Where can I get one? But that sounds like the way to go because I don't want to have to change my inlet and outlet bolt pattern as my current intercooler bolts up right now with a gktech adapter. What do you use with the other style flange on these gtx turbos? Do you use a silicine joiner or do u need to make up an intercooler pipe that fits a v band clamp?

 

I'm talking this style of turbo inlet/outlet vs this kind with a bolt pattern

 

GTX2867R_Front_TBG.jpg

 

 

gt2871r_hks_gtr-s.jpg

Edited by s15rocket

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Tuners have told me gtx isn't the way to go unless you are pushing them to max boost, and for my power goals (similar to yours) to just go disco potato or gt2871 also mamba turbos seem to be the go for budget turbos now

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THe GTX dont come in a s15 style bolt housing unfortunately so will have to mod your piping. Not to hard to do with silicon joiners to mate up to current piping as done it in the past with an old disco, but this time I was getting custom piping so just had it made to suit

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Tuners have told me gtx isn't the way to go unless you are pushing them to max boost, and for my power goals (similar to yours) to just go disco potato or gt2871 also mamba turbos seem to be the go for budget turbos now

 

Why would you buy a turbo that you are not running at peak efficiency?

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Tuners have told me gtx isn't the way to go unless you are pushing them to max boost, and for my power goals (similar to yours) to just go disco potato or gt2871 also mamba turbos seem to be the go for budget turbos now

 

Why would you buy a turbo that you are not running at peak efficiency?

good point but I think the example he was using was more the difference between high and low boost settings and having crappy efficiency on low boost compared to similar sized turbos in the gt range, probably won't be an issue if you are pushing it all the time and I haven't compared personally

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Also once chasing power above 250kw the 2bolt 2 1/2inch inlet starts to become a restriction

Tested by hypergear 13kw difference from 3inch intake to 2 1/2inch intake at 255kw

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Hypergear no doubt about it, if you want response Hypergear are the people to deliver it.

Non mass manufactured turbos, tested on motors that we actually own and not just on a computer and then produced for the mass.

 

Garrett is a great turbo no doubt about it R&D is great but Hypergear is effectively HKS in Australia, They take a base turbo and then refine it even more to suit a very specific market.

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Also once chasing power above 250kw the 2bolt 2 1/2inch inlet starts to become a restriction

Tested by hypergear 13kw difference from 3inch intake to 2 1/2inch intake at 255kw

Hypergear no doubt about it, if you want response Hypergear are the people to deliver it.

Non mass manufactured turbos, tested on motors that we actually own and not just on a computer and then produced for the mass.

 

Garrett is a great turbo no doubt about it R&D is great but Hypergear is effectively HKS in Australia, They take a base turbo and then refine it even more to suit a very specific market.

 

So which hypergear is the go for 240-270rwkw (cams and e85) with good response? The hypergear turbo names are kinda weird. Don't know which one is which.

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250kw ss1.5

270kw+ ss2

Smaller will be more responsive but limited to 20psi due to backpressure if using the smaller .64 rear housing on the ss1.5

I tested a few years back

but if using the larger rear housing on the ss1.5 .86 rear housing

Free it up abit to run more boost and 16kw more up top but loose alot down low and makes it laggy and more linear powerband

Full boost at 41-4200rpm

Might aswell just run the ss2 with the .64 rear housing full boost 3800rpm 25psi and 280rwkw on my old car e85

 

I dont know about now as stao from hypergear has altered the rear turbine wheel on the ss1.5 now since then to relieve abit of backpressure

 

Also all cars may differ alil on power output as not many people have got the same output as him on pump 98

As his test car is a s14 so vct sr20 and rebuilt with forgies and bc s2 cams and also he has a good flowing setup good intercooler aftermarket manifold and 3inch intake

He made 270kw on 20psi and 280kw on 26psi with the ss1.5

And 308kw on 25psi with the ss2

The ss1.5 is definately maxxed out around 20psi as it only made 10kw for a extra 6psi and even it was a spike tappered towards top end where as the ss2 holds 24-25psi solid till redline

 

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I made 28kw less than him with the ss2 but i was on e85

But i had a non vct sr20

Smaller cams poncams step 1

Stock manifold

All will add up and dynos may also differ abit

Afew people have got very similar results to him with non vct sr20 but built also and bigger cams and same tuner and dyno as him

Read in the hypergear thread for all the results

Its definately worth it local warranty

Abit cheaper

Alot of rnd

His customer support is very good even answers your questions after hours

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Thank you for the detailed replies pur40m, I went to the hypergear website and checked out the thread here as well. Lots of good info :)

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I just bought a Kinugawa gtx2863r and then just found this Thread....

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For those that are interested finally got my gen 1 GTX2860R tuned

S14 motor, E85, Step 1.5 ish cam ( most similar to pro cams)

 

Made 230Kw so nothing crazy at 22psi bleeding down to 18psi. But makes 17 psi at the start of most runs around 3250, and 22 buy about 3600. This is in a car with an airbox, in bay cooler, cat and big muffler. So may make a tad more on more free flowing car but fat power curve perfect for street car, Feels like a t28 that pulls harder

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For those that are interested finally got my gen 1 GTX2860R tuned

S14 motor, E85, Step 1.5 ish cam ( most similar to pro cams)

 

Made 230Kw so nothing crazy at 22psi bleeding down to 18psi. But makes 17 psi at the start of most runs around 3250, and 22 buy about 3600. This is in a car with an airbox, in bay cooler, cat and big muffler. So may make a tad more on more free flowing car but fat power curve perfect for street car, Feels like a t28 that pulls harder

 

 

Yeah I'm definitely interested man.

 

I would of expected more tbh specially with cams and e85. Seems like something is restricting it. Did you cut the bottom out of your airbox? You should of done that before you got it tuned. I did that will my old s15 and it looked totally stock from the top and the only way you could tell it was cut out is if you put your hand under there. Gained me an extra 20rwkw when I got it tuned.

 

Nevertheless 230rwkw is good fun! Especially if its responsive. So it feels better than your last turbo? What you have on it before?

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Ive seen std t28 on s15 stock cams push 219kw on e85 so not much of a upgrade the gtx2860 especially it has cams aswell

Another very responsive option is if you find is a

Pe1420 or ihi vn14 turbo harder to find now but they look similar in size to a t25 but make 230kw e85 and even more responsive than a t28 bolt on

 

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I just bought a Kinugawa gtx2863r and then just found this Thread....

Do you mean the mamba gtx range for sr20 ?

I would like to see how well they go proberly very similar to the genuine garett gtx range as there still bb and at almost half the price but still would rather go hypergear just for the local warranty as there still over $1k

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As I said has a cat, big muffler, small in bay cooler ect. But while building car said I was prepared to give up 10-15kw for it to be legalish. Was a bit disappointing in the number but is a blast to drive as long as not expecting to do roll racing. Super linear and responsive and doesn't run out of puff up top like some of the other smaller turbos ive had. Way better than old kingagawa t518z as felt 10x laggier.

Had 2510, 2530, pe1420 as well in the past and this feels about the same in response maybe tiny bit laggier but pulls to redline

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I just bought a Kinugawa gtx2863r and then just found this Thread....

Do you mean the mamba gtx range for sr20 ?

I would like to see how well they go proberly very similar to the genuine garett gtx range as there still bb and at almost half the price but still would rather go hypergear just for the local warranty as there still over $1k

 

The Kinugawa Gtx2863r mate. Just finished bolting it up today.Ill keep you noted when it gos for a tune :)

Edited by Spinning

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I just bought a Kinugawa gtx2863r and then just found this Thread....

Do you mean the mamba gtx range for sr20 ?

I would like to see how well they go proberly very similar to the genuine garett gtx range as there still bb and at almost half the price but still would rather go hypergear just for the local warranty as there still over $1k

 

The Kinugawa Gtx2863r mate. Just finished bolting it up today.Ill keep you noted when it gos for a tune :)

 

Post up the dyno and list your mods when you get it turned. Would keen to see it! Thanks :)

Edited by s15rocket

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Found an American company that makes the new gen 2 GTX turbos with S15 bolt pattern. :D

 

Plug and play boys! No mucking around with intercoolers or silcone joiners or v-bands.

 

Need to save us for this now. I wonder how the GTX 2871r would go?

 

My theory is to run the gen 2 GTX 2867r on e85 on my 180sx without having to install cams or springs (saving a lot of money) and should net me a nice 260rwkw on my stock unopened engine. :D

 

 

How you ask? There is a type x 180sx in the turbo reference guide (most recent page) with this turbo installed on BP98 getting 230rwkw without cams so I'm guessing on e85 its good for another 30rwkw.

 

What you think?

 

 

http://www.atpturbo....egory_Code=VSR2

http://www.atpturbo....egory_Code=VSR2

 

 

GRT-TBO-002_a450.jpg

ATP-SUB-025_450-1.jpg

 

 

APPLICABLE GARRETT PART NUMBERS:

 

* 849894-5002S

 

 

The GTX2871R features an ultra high flow compressor wheel and Garrett 11-Blade technology. 560HP potential flow.

 

The Garrett GEN2 GTX2867R features an advanced ultra high flow compressor wheel which supports up to 550HP potential flow.

Edited by s15rocket

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